Engine Rev Issues - Sparks? Timing Adjust? Dirty Petrol?

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Engine Rev Issues - Sparks? Timing Adjust? Dirty Petrol?

Postby jonny1975 on Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:42 am

Hi again All,

Many thanks for all the advice thus far, I wonder if some (more) advice could be provided.

I recently bought my used FRV (FRV 2.0L SE, 55 Plate, 25000 Miles, Roof rack) and i love it. We primarily drive around the suburbs of Glasgow, and we are driving more sensibly than ever and achieving an average of 26MPG (not great mpg, but it’s not a diesel). Anyway, all this cautious driving has allowed me to 'hear' more about how the car is performing...

My issue is a bit hard to explain, so plz bear with me ....
- When first starting the car (anytime during the day, Glasgow, summer 2010), it is idling at approx. 1500rpm. It stays at this until about 4-5 mins have passed, then gradually drops down to approx. 1000rpm for a couple of mins, then it moves down to under 1000rpm.
> Is it normal to have such high rpm's in mild weather conditions? Is it normal for the engine to take up-to-approx. 7mins at higher revs, before idling lower, and eventually being ready to drive?

- Next, with the engine warmed (idling for approx. 7mins), its time to move-off. I noticed this during the test drive, but it’s become more annoying now; the car requires more rev's to get it going and failure to give ample rev's will result in the car stalling (happened 6 times to me and wife in past 2 days!!!). This is particularly noticeable on even non-steep hill starts and when reversing out of heavy gravel driveway etc. And, if we don’t give sufficient revs, but manage not to stall, then the likely result is a slight 'kangaroo petrol' feeling. This also can occur during gear shifts, so one subsequently gives more rev’s (and thus increased petrol consumption) to prevent the kangaroo feeling.

- Furthermore, when driving (irrespective of how warm the engine is), you often get the sensation of the engine momentarily feeling ‘un-regular’, with a slight surge and dip in the engine revs’. This ‘slight resistance’ feels like the car is being pushed back a little by the wind.

I bought the 55 plate car at just less than 25,000 miles (so it’s out of Manufacturer’s warranty, but have a 3month warranty from Peter Vardy Dealership, where I bought the car – but it’s a Vauxhall Franchise). The car has now done approximately 25,300 miles, and I note that the Service schedule is due at 25,000 which include the replacement of spark plugs and adjustment of timing etc. I see that the previous owner had a service at 24,000 miles (From a small non- Honda-Service-Centre), which according to the receipts in the service manual, included the replacement of the spark plugs, but it doesn’t say anything about the timing being adjusted!!!

I am asking the Peter Vardy Vauxhall Dealership (where I purchased car) to have a look at it, which they are hopefully going to do. However, as it is not obvious what the problem is – I am nervous that they will not know what to look for?

Has anyone had any similar experience with the Petrol version? Has anyone any ideas as to what the problem may be? I note that Henry Yorke has some thoughts on the Rev Performance / lack of power at low revs of the Petrol VTec engines (see below).

Henry Yorke wrote:
I went for the diesel as it would have better residuals in the future, more economical to run and the most power and torque out of the range. My only concern with VTec was you have to thrash the knackers off it to get it moving and with the family in the car I didn't want to be at 8000 RPM to go quick and the torque is much lower down on the diesel.




Many thanks in advance.

Regards

Jonny
FRV 2.0L SE, 55 Plate, 25000 Miles, Roofrack
jonny1975
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:34 pm

Re: Engine Rev Issues - Sparks? Timing Adjust? Dirty Petrol?

Postby tezmed on Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:22 am

sounds like a idle control valve issue........ should be a simple fix

all motors idle high for a few moments on starting- so that the alternator works harder recharging the battery (possibly your batteries dud low voltage???) should idle approx 800rpm after batteries replenished

fuel economy should be much better.... the 1.8 ive got i can drive it at 45-50mpg with much thought..... could you have a fuel leak as you mention kangaroo fuel supply or the fuel filter might be very worse for wear and creating a void of fuel within the system... might even be the fuel pump playing havoc

im pretty sure the frvs are timing chains not belts (however on the diesels it might be different)

either way im surprised a dealership allowed you to purchase the motor in 'said' condition- thats not good for the customer satisfaction tables....
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Re: Engine Rev Issues - Sparks? Timing Adjust? Dirty Petrol?

Postby jonny1975 on Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:58 am

Thanks for the great advice Tezmed,

1) I had the dealer replace the battery for a brand new one (as the existing battery looked like the original to the car - approx. 5 yrs old). This seems to have made a bit of a difference - seems to be running smoother - both at start up and in driving conditions - could that be possible? I haven’t really had a proper good run in it though (only done about 30 miles since), so I’ll wait to reserve full judgement.

It does appear though to have had an immediate effect on the fuel consumption. Prior to the battery being changed it was doing 26-27mpg. It now seems to be achieving 30-31mpg! Should i be expecting even greater fuel efficiency than this ??? (2ltr petrol - no roof box fitted)

2) The Vauxhall dealer (Peter Vardy) where i bought the FRV have been QUITE EXCELLENT in terms of 'ensuring I’m happy', so absolutely no complaints there. They did all the basic checks (Replaced the battery, spark plugs cleaned, ensured no arcing occurring, inspected the filters, etc). They've suggested i use some STP Fuel injection cleaner just to give the injectors a clean, and if I’m still experiencing probs with 'rough running', then they will use my warranty to arrange a 'sub let', whereby my FRV can go to my local Honda Dealership for proper diagnostics !!! (I'm tempted to have this done anyway - while i still have some of my 3 month warranty remaining ;) )

3) So (excuse my ignorance) you think the 2.0 Ltr Petrol FRV is a timing chain as opposed to timing belt? Does this mean that it never needs the 'timing' adjusted? Is it better to have a timing chain, as opposed to a timing belt - does that mean that it doesn’t need replacing at e.g.) 60,000 miles, as most timing belts require?

4) Can you let me know how much you want for your alloys (assuming billyboy doesn’t purchase them from you)?


Cheers

Jonny
FRV 2.0L SE, 55 Plate, 25000 Miles, Roofrack
jonny1975
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:34 pm

Re: Engine Rev Issues - Sparks? Timing Adjust? Dirty Petrol?

Postby marky on Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:27 am

Hi Jonny,
Its unusall that a battery would cause the faults you've describe, but would have a an effect on the car. If the battery was knackered the alternator would keep trying to charge it at full rate, and there by putting extra load on the engine, but not cause rough running, I've been doing cars for a long time and never put rough running down to a battery! but then again everything is possible with car electrics esp with smart charging!
More likely the earth strap had high resistance on it for whatever reason and them changing the battery has cure it, or some other connection.
As for a rough running, I would be checking air flow meters, air mass meters etc. Another part on modern cars that seem to cause problems are the EGR valves and coils. Unfortnately to diagnose modern cars with unusuall faults requires them to be plugged in and the ecu read and to run live data tests to see what all the systems on the engine are doing.

You are right the 2.0 does have a timing chain, and most of the time you don't need to do anything to them and should last the life of the car. But chains can stretch which would cause incorrect engine timing, and tensions can fail. very rare for this to happen on the hondas.

Hope you get it sorted

Mark
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